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Subject: TML biweekly: Msgs 7561-7568 V44#14
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TML biweekly    Sun May 15 21:00:04 EDT 1994    Volume 44 : Issue 14

Today's topics:

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 603  7562 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Deep Space Jump Navigation << Gentlesop
 603  7563 13-May-1994 Roger Sanger     To split or not to split... << Remember
 603  7564 13-May-1994 David Johnson    No More Post-Imperial Era (PIE) In the 
 603  7565 13-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Re: Deep Space Stations << J Roberson <
 603  7566 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Earth Colonies - MT#1 Library Data << G
 603  7567 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Earth Colonies - Sirius Subsector << Ge
 603  7568 14-May-1994 PPUGLIESE@pimac  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7551-7561 V74#3 <
 603  7561 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 15 - Sword Worlds << G

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7562
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 20:10:15 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Deep Space Jump Navigation

Gentlesophonts:

Okay, before I start *please* keep in mind two things: first, I'm the
*background* guy who generally has little use for rules; and second, I'm
only rated at Navigator-1!  :-)

Matt Good? <mgood@MIT.EDU> writes:

> I think that instead it's calculations based on charted positions,
> etc.  While your idea is interesting, how do you locate the
> targets?

Okay, I've got some sort of `jump space gravity well detector' - maybe
it's a `Johnsonometer'?  :-)  It doesn't matter that those `gravity waves'
from that star in the next system are 3.26 years old because the relative
motion between here and there in the past 3.26 years isn't significant.
(Didn't the *World Builders' Handbook* say I could `scan' systems at
interstellar distances?)  This also makes Navigation skill useful (since
even my Model 1/bis can just input coordinates into the nav'puter).

> Also, this seems to be against the 100 diameter idea: you
> want to be far away from gravity wells, not close to them.

Actually, no.  I want to get close (that's the whole idea, right) but I
can't get *too* close or my jump drive goes wacko.
 
> I think that you target your ship towards a coordinate in space,
> not towards a gravity well...

If this is how it works, how do I explore new territory?  Just jump out
there and hope there's a system?  I supposed I can take astronomical
measurements for coordinates, but isn't that just `photonic' targeting?

> If I were a player in your campaign, I would want to know how my ship
> is targeting gravity wells parsecs away:

Same way whomever provide those coordinates the first time, got them.

> that would indicate alot of 
> interesting possiblities ;-)

I'm eager to hear them!

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
A.S., Jumpspace Philosophy  :-)
(A little intimidated by MIT e-mail addresses!)
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7563
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 18:34:30 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: To split or not to split...


Remember when I suggested a new Regency-specific mailing list?
Well, I'm sure glad it DIDN'T come about.

As for seperate areas for TNE and pre-TNE Traveller, well...

The Pros:
- ---------
You might placate some of the people who ditched due to TNE, and some of 
them might come back to participate.

The Cons:
- ---------
More administrative work for James -- keeping two lists, etc.
Possible reduction of the critical mass that has been achieved on TML.
Creates a little more hassle for those who like partaking in discussions
and swapping in all eras.
You can already discuss anything relating to Traveller on the TML, from any
era -- to diminish its subject matter for the aesthetic concerns of a 
handful seems ludicrous.

The participation level of those who ditched wasn't that high anyways.
If TML is not regulated/restricted from CT/MT posts, TML'ers will go
right on posting such, to the loss of those who subscribe to the subject-
limited list exclusively.

- --------------------------------------------

Seems like a rather lopsided issue to me.

I prefer the general Traveller theme.  It's much simpler -- you read the
messages you want to read.  You keep the messages you want to keep.

Plus, I love bigger crowds -- 500 is a pretty big crowd!

Jibbering,
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7564
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 20:41:52 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: No More Post-Imperial Era (PIE) In the Sky!

Gentlesophonts:

Our illustrious Administrator <jamesp@sp-eug.com> writes:

> Subject: Pre-TNE Traveller Mailing List Planned
> 
> I am announcing my plans to create a second Traveller Mailing List.

To which I eagerly reply, "Sign me up!"

> I have not yet decided on a name for this sublist. Nor am I taking
> subscriptions for it at this time. The TML, however, will be the first
> to know when the mechanisms are ready.

Okay, okay, so I'm a little *too* eager.  I've two questions though.
Where do non-CT/MT, non-TNE Traveller discussion (like the Earth Colonies)
end up? And secondly, when do we get a Pre-MT/Rebellion mailing list?  :-)


Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> suggests:

> I think instead of dividing the mail listing, the TML should adapt a
> subject heading format, similar to the ones used on rec.games.frp.misc.

This might be a good idea.  James, how difficult would it be to develop
a mechanism that would `reject' messages that didn't conform to this format
like you already have for messages with 80+ characters per line?

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA
(Now wondering why I've been helping to develop a Regency sourcebook)

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7565
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 22:47:04 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Re: Deep Space Stations

J Roberson <RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu> writes:

>No offense meant to any of those groups, of course. Besides, I don't play
>*any* form of Traveller; I just hang out here for the sci-fi. ;)

INFIDEL!!!!!!!  :)


Cynthia Higginbotham <CHiggin@aol.com> writes:

[many very useful comments on deep-space refueling deleted]

>I also venture to add that Impy merchants consider deep-space jumping
>as risky a practice as burning unrefined fuel in your jump drive, and
>discourage it.  So do their insurers.  Someone else can explain why
>the Imperial Navy and Zho Navy don't do it very often...

To illuminate why merchants would find deep space jumping dangerous,
consider this.  When you jump into a deep-space hex, you have no 
"landmarks" to orient by -- normally, in a stellar system, you have a 
nearby star and some planets to fix your location, but for a deep space
station, you are dependent on an accurate jump and the station's 
radio beacon/radar reflector.  On _Brilliant Lances_ scale, a ship
jumping 100 diameters from a size-8 world is a bit over 40 hexes away
from target.  Finding a lone station at even that close a range could 
be tricky.  And if the station isn't where you think it is or your 
calculations are substantially off, you and your ship may be waiting a
long time to be found.

My guess as to why the IN and ZN don't seem to use deep space refueling
much is two-fold.  First, it may be tricky to maintain fuel levels in
the cache without tying up too many fleet tankers, especially if it
is in a forward area.  Cynthia, what's your experience with this?  It
may also be that we just don't hear much about them -- our usual source
of info is the TNS, and such bases would usually be secret installations.

I think that such stations have been used -- my interpretation of the
4FW "Battle of Two Suns" which was "midway between Yres and Menorb"
as depicted in the CT adventure _The Kinunir_ sounds a lot like a 
fight over a fueling and resupply base in deep space.  It would explain
why the fates of Efate, Yres, and Menorb hung in the balance over the
outcome, and why afterward the Zhodani supply lines were too long.
It would also explain why the battlefield may still have ships from which
parts could be salvaged.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7566
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 22:48:38 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Earth Colonies - MT#1 Library Data

Gentlesophonts:

The following library data first appeared in *Melbourne Times* #1:

CREATE: An acronym for Cultural Revelation, Appreciation, Tolerance and
Education, CREATE is a Nyanzan quasi-governmental organization responsible for
development and promotion of artistic and cultural interchanges among
Federation worlds as well as between the Federation and other Colonial States. 
Largely through the efforts of CREATE, Nyanzan artistic and cultural endeavors
are not only recognized but widely applauded throughout the Colonies Sphere. 
Artists from across the Sphere are drawn to the many educational institutions
operated by CREATE on Federation worlds.

Gaez Gavvi Eudrael (GGE): Roughly translated as "External Security
Directorate", the GGE is the primary Meren intelligence agency in the Colonies
Sphere.  Focused mainly on countering Aeroi efforts during the Markets War, its
operations have been scaled back with the end of that conflict.  Still, the GGE
is believed to have recruited Dolphin and Human agents from most Colonial
States in recent years.

House Moreira: A major Ouroran mercantile entity, Moreira provides passenger
and freight transport among Community worlds and operates interface routes as
well.  It is a Community leader in the manufacture and export of starships,
computers and robotics, and a variety of vehicles and crafts.  Moreira is also
the largest operator of starports in the community.
Lucent Templars: An elite military order of the Abrahamic Synod whose members
are found in all of the Synod's military services.  Appointment to the order is
made personally by the Supreme Aspirant and entails extensive, and highly
secret, religious and military training.  Claims that this includes training in
psionic disciplines have been vehemently denied by the order and have never
been substantiated by reliable sources.

Markets War: Period of confrontation (c2955-3000) between Aeroi and Meren
interests over access to markets in the Colonies Sphere.  While the two
entities never actually met in all-out war, each was involved in various
activities, including market monopolization, military support of local
governments and indigenous guerrilla movements, commercial and political
espionage, financial leveraging and arbitrage, and industrial and mercantile
sabotage, that resulted in often intense tension in the region.  Ended with the
political collapse of the Meren Expansionist Clique and the mysterious withdraw
of many Meren elements to their own sphere.

Prometheus Foundation: An independent research and development house that has
been instrumental in the dissemination of technology throughout the Colonies
Sphere.  Prometheus agents and researches are encountered throughout the Sphere
wherever technology is being developed.  Many states are critical of the
Foundation's insistence on sharing its technological innovations but none have
been willing to forego the advantages of cooperation with the Foundation.  The
Prometheus Foundation's origins trace back to a late 20th Century arms
manufacturer that translated military technology into commercial technology for
developing nations.  Among its more famous accomplishments has been the
subsector organization used by most States in the Sphere that was developed to
foster cooperation across borders.  The Prometheus Foundation also provides
minimum Class E starport facilities throughout the Sphere where such facilities
are beyond the capability of individual worlds.

Transtellar Lines: One of the major Commonwealth interstellar carriers,
Transtellar liners and freighters are common throughout Commonwealth space and
beyond.  Transtellar operates interface routes to all major Colonial States. 
Transtellar's origins trace back to a corporate charter granted during the
period of early sub-light re-colonization just prior to the development of jump
drive.

Universidad de Aztlan: The major university of the Empire of Aztlan is one of
the most respected educational institutions in the Colonies Sphere in the
fields of engineering and technology.  In addition to training cadets for the
Empire's military services the Universidad de Aztlan also graduates the
majority of the Empire's shipwrights and other starship industry technicians. 
Unlike other Aztlan universities, the UdeA does not accept students from
outside the Empire.

Ysinal udi-Quinan: The major Aeroi mercantile house in Auriga subsector is also
the largest organization of its type in the entire Colonies Sphere.  From its
headquarters on hvi-Unapfi, Ysinal udi-Quinan manages Aeroi investment and
trade development activities throughout the Sphere.  Even though a
quasi-governmental agency, Ysinal udi-Quinan includes several non-Aeroi
corporations among its holdings.

*****

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7567
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 23:00:32 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Earth Colonies - Sirius Subsector

Gentlesophonts:

The following UWP data for Sirius Subsector (where Earth is located) is
from an Earth Colonies Development League Working Paper:

Sirius Subsector (G-III)

hex & name              UPP      bases  remarks         PBG Al spectral class
1714.19 Leyte           E210215-5     Lo Ni             703 Az K0D
1716.19 Dairen          D9635CA-7     Ni                510 Na M7V M0V
1718.20 Sirius Belt     E00047A-8     As Ni             402 Na A1V A0D
1718.27 Makino          D561474-9 S   Ni S:Co           724 Na G5V
1720.19 Earth           A867988-D DWX Hi Cp Ho          814 Co G2V
1811.25 Lingayen        B4596A9-C N   Ni N:Co           804 Na M2V
1813.22 Oporto          D6A3566-8 S   Fl Ni S:Co        312 Na F6V K2V M0V
1814.19 Takla Makan     AB70755-D N   De N:Co           802 Na M1V
1817.22 Ghee            EAA8440-8     Fl Ni             414 Co M0V
1820.25 Ulan-Ude        A555656-B NX  Ag Ni             604 Co G1IV
1911.20 Ogadai          E889687-5     Ni Ri             804 Co K3V M0V
1913.22 Orozco          BA77555-9 N   Ag Ni N:Co        113 Na M1V M0V
1916.20 Novo Uralsk     D895587-8     Ag Ni             410 Co K1V A0D M4V
1917.20 Lalibela        E773342-2     Lo Ni             113 Co K2V M0V
1919.20 Ensanche        A564483-D X   Ni                514 Co M5V M5V
2017.23 Oyama           E6755A9-5     Ag Ni             902 Na G5V
2019.20 al-Ghazali      B9666CC-B N   Ag Ni             602 Co G8V
2019.24 Bakwanga        BB93786-9                       500 Na K2V K5V
2019.27 Rolvaag         E314232-3     Ic Lo Ni          510 Na K0D
2020.22 Saavedra        B694430-B NX  Ni                603 Co M4V
2020.26 Udaipur         A76A68D-A     Wa Ni Ri          104 Na G2V
2119.19 VanMaanen's     A000785-C     As Na             203 Na G1D
2213.21 Aurobindo       A953576-B     Po Ni             904 Na K0IV
2213.27 Maharashtra     C510665-9     Na Ni             404 Na M4VI
2313.19 Orinoco         A762576-D N   Ni N:Co           603 Na G5V
2315.21 Bulawayo        E66349B-8     Ni                614 Na K0V
2315.26 Kinabalu        EB91547-7     Ni                810 Na K6V M0V
2316.24 Edo             C854531-8 S   Ag Ni S:Co        914 Na M0V
2318.21 Roodepoort      E76848A-7     Ni                723 Co M5V
2320.19 al-Hariri       E981387-3     Lo Ni             404 Na M2V
2320.25 Mbandaka        C406565-8 S   Ic Va Ni S:Co     513 Na A0D
2411.23 Nagpur          E6A6346-4     Fl Lo Ni          711 Th K7V
2412.27 OleMweia's      A00068A-D     As Na Ni          401 Na M5VI
2416.22 al-Mansur       ABD1776-C NX                    704 Th M3V

Alignment codes: Az-Empire of Aztlan, Co-Commonwealth of Earth, Na-Non-aligned,
Th-Theridian League.

The Sirius subsector is named for its brightest star (at 1718.20) and contains
34 worlds including the Dolphin and Human homeworld of Earth 1720.19.  The
highest population is 8 billion at Earth.  The highest tech level is 13, at
Takla Makan, Ensanche, Orinoco, OleMweia's Belt and also at Earth.
Ten worlds in the subsector claim allegiance to the Commonwealth of Earth,
including its capital, Earth.  Two worlds claim allegiance to the Theridian
League to trailward in Theridia subsector and one world claims allegiance to
the Empire of Aztlan to spinward in Procyon subsector.

*****

All of these worlds (except Earth) were generated using the variant world
generation rules I posted previously.

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7568
Date: 14 May 1994 01:23:15 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7551-7561 V74#3

I cast my vote to add the new mailing list.

It will make it alot easier for me to handle the daily digest
by making the DD smaller & that will actually allow me to post
more often.

Phil Pugliese

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7561
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 19:01:09 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 15 - Sword Worlds

Gentlesophonts:

From Thursday night, Phil Pugliese <PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu> writes:

> Subject: Sword Worlds History vs US History
> 
> thought that I should raise the point that basing an argument upon fun-
> damentals that others don't accept will usually result in a conclusion
> that those others won't accept either.

Good point.  I hope I'm not trying to `force' the Sword Worlds into my own
view of how they `should' be but clearly that's how I'm being perceived.
I'll have to try harder.
 

One quick diversion, Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk> writes:

> Subject: L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa, Gg
> 
> Comments:     This water world is under the aegis of Sharurshid, the 
>               megacorporation specialising in rare trade goods.

This is some really good stuff, except I thought Sharurshid and the other
Vilani megacorps had withdrawn to the Ziru Sirka during the Rebellion?
[WARNING: I don't have TNE!]  It seems to me that even if the Vilani
Bureaux had maintained a presence in the Domain of Deneb this presence
would have been cut-off by the Virus and the Quarantine Line and the
`Imperial' megacorps would have assumed control of former Bureaux assets.


Now back to the Sword Worlds.  Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:

> Encountering their TL 12 fleet en route. Now what?

Well, first, remember in my scenario, Sacnoth hasn't been selling any TL 12
goods to Gram, and since they probably can't get any from the Darrians
or the Imperium (the Zhodani, maybe, I admit, but Sacnoth has similar access)
so the Sacnoth Fleet only encouters a TL 11 Gram Fleet.  (I believe this was
the case in the 5FW.  Forces from different worlds - Gram and Joyeuse -
reflected the TL of the specific world.  Anyone have easy access to those
*Fifth Frontier War* counters who can check for sure?)

Before I go further, let me say that I've taken to heart Hans's (and Phil's)
comments that I should focus on the `facts at hand'.  I'm really trying to
come to an understanding of the situation based upon the facts rather than
my own view of `how it ought to be'.  I just see many inconsistencies in
what few facts we have at hand.

> (Or _not_ encountering 
> it, which would be a lot more worrying ;-).

Well, yes, but this is the nature of interstellar warfare in the Traveller
universe.  :-)

> And the next thing you know Sacnoth is being visited by the combined fleets
> of the rest of the Sword Worlds who are anxious to ensure that you won't
> visit their world next.

Well, maybe, except that if Sacnoth does it's `front work' some of the
other Sword Worlds will be allied or at least tolerant of it's actions.  If
it hits the `leader' of the opposition first the remaining worlds will be
less likely to jump up for their own `chance in the barrel'.

> Perhaps this gave
> them an Us-and-Them mentality that prevails to this day.

Are those refugees *Piper's* `original Sword Worlders' or GDW's?  :-)
I believe the original GDW Sword Worlders were merely fleeing the
Interstellar Wars rather than their own specific defeat.

This might be true, but I don't think Sacnoth (or whoever) will need to
`cripple' the other worlds in order to dominate the Confederation.

> Which may be why Sachnoth is due for their own downturn on the cycle in the
> not too distant future.

I admit, if these `cycles' exist it explains a lot, but I just don't see
what causes them, nor understand why the same thing hasn't happened in the
Imperium or the Darrian Confederation.

> Think about this for a moment. Sacnoth is not the US in that analogy, they 
> are another one of the Latin nations.

Okay, but I don't believe this situation is analogous in terms of the TL
disparities (I'll get to that in a bit).  In a `Latin' scenario with no US
I see several different blocs centered about the `stronger' nations like
Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, and Colombia (which will see much more stability
when the US drug market disappears).  This is quite similar to Sword
Worlds history.  If one world rises to dominance (possibly with Zhodani
aid) I suspect it will stay there.  In a feudal technocracy, it ought to
be the highest tech world.

BTW, if Gram does maintain its position with Zhodani aid *and* the Sword
Worlders have this `us vs. them' mentality it seems much more likely to
me that a combined fleet is going to show up at Gram, especially in light
of the anti-Zhodani sentiment in the Confederation.

> How significant is an advantage of 12 over 11 and 10?
> a TL 12 fleet is twice as efficient, ton for ton, as a TL 11 and
> six times as efficient as TL 10.

Another measure would be the TL mods used in *5FW*.  I don't remember the
details (and my copy is 250 mi. away in Fort Worth) but I seem to
remember just a few battalions of TL 15 Imperial troops being able to
hold off several TL 10-11 corps of Sword Worlders.  Let's use the
figures you've quoted until someone else digs up their copy of *5FW*.

> What is the population of Sacnoth compared to the rest of the
> Confederation? It's no use being twice as good as the other fellow if 
> there's 10 of him.)

Okay, let's look at the info I posted a while back:

Sword Worlds Subsector Data c1120 (from *MTJ* #3)
Tizon (+6)      0922 B386887-A M   Ri                   323 Sw  K2VI M3D
Narsil (+6)     0927 B574A55-A M   Hi In                224 Sw  M0II M6D
Anduril (+7)    1026 B985855-B M   Ri                   222 Sw  F2V
Gram (+8)       1223 A895957-B M   Hi In Cp             603 Sw  F2D M2D
Sacnoth (+7)    1325 B775956-C M   Hi In                301 Sw* F9V M8D
Sting (+5)      1525 B645896-A M                        302 Sw* M0V

These are all the pop 8+ Sword Worlds.  Gram, at twice the population
of Sacnoth, ought to be able to fight the higher tech Sacnoth to a standstill.
Anduril, at one-tenth the population of Sacnoth, could choose the `winner'
in such a conflict.  Narsil, at a ten-to-one advantage over Sacnoth, suffers
a twelve-to-one technological disadvantage.  Seems a Sacnoth-Anduril alliance
should be able to topple those `Zho-puppets' on Gram.  Since Gram is the
capital that suggests a Gram-Anduril alliance (or Zhodani aid).

>   -  even if the other worlds don't buy TL 12 ships
> elsewhere.

Where?  I doubt the Imperium or the Darrians would sell to the Sword Worlds.
The Zhodani, maybe, but what advantage do *they* have in fostering instability
in the Confederation?  A stable Sword Worlds on the border of the Imperium
would have been in the interest of the Zhodani!

> Depends on what he buys. Some things (like computers) would be risky, other
> things could be checked against sabotage.

I'm wasn't thinking sabotage - I was thinking war-time embargo.  Tough to
wage a military campaign if you're buying your ammo-vehicles-medkits-
transport ships-*et al* from your adversary.

> But perhaps he buys them from the
> Imperium instead. After all, they are propably playing the US to the Sword
> Worlds' Latin America.

I doubt it.  At the risk of beating a dead horse, if allied Mexican-
Brazilian-Argentine troops had recently occupied San Diego and San Antonio
you can bet there would be *a lot* of support in the US for much more than
just `fostering instability' in Latin America.  (It's often fashionable to
make light of US resolve as being `typical' of great powers like the
Imperium but keep in mind the last time any `foreign' troops were in the
US proper they were from Virginia, Georgia and Maryland!)  It's clear
that any supposed efforts by the Imperium to merely foster instability
in the Sword Worlds have been unsuccessful - it hasn't prevented them
from attacking every time the Zhos get a wild hair.

> I don't see how that follows at all. The only times the Sword Worlds
> invade the Imperium is with promise of Zhodani help. You can't make
> many assumptions based on how people behave when they think they have
> a powerful ally.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  Regardless of why the Sword Worlds
have attacked the Imperium there are clearly reasons why the Imperium
hasn't `dealt' with the Sword Worlds long ago.  I doubt the Zhodani would
have gone to war over an Imperial invasion of the Sword Worlds so there
must be some reason the Sword Worlds themselves were able to deter such
action.

I can't reconcile this `fact' with the proposed `cycles'.  (And yet, I
can't reconcile Gram's leadership either.  I'm still generally confused
and dissatisfied.)

> Based on the constant instability of the Sword Worlds it seems to me that
> that may be precisely what the Imperium has been doing.
> 
> On the contrary, if the Imperium has been doing that it explains why the
> Sword Worlds are PO'd enough to keep on joining an alliance that has struck 
> out again and again.

Again, this seems contradictory to me.  Any Imperial meddling in the Sword
Worlds has caused the *opposite* result - Sword Worlds incursions - so
why hasn't the Imperium sent ". . . the [Imperial] Marines to that little
[subsector spinward of Glisten] and *stopped* that problem!"?

> >The Zhodani may be a factor
> 
> I've no doubt they are a major factor.

Okay, this seems the only reasonable solution.  The Zhodani are supporting
Gram in its leadership of the Confederation.  Through this support, and
*despite* the generally anti-Zhodani sentiments in the Sword Worlds, Gram
is able to maintain its leadership in spite of the greater technological
accomlishments of Sacnoth.  In addition to it's support of Gram, the
Consulate has made it clear to the Imperium that it will not tolerate
direct action against the Confederation.

In a sense, the Sword Worlds have been nothing more than a Zhodani client
state.  (Ouch!  That's tough to admit.)  To continue to tromp on my Latin
American analogy, it's as if the Soviets had supported a Cuban-Mexican-
Brazilian-Argentine-*et al* confederation that overran Florida, Texas,
and California every few decades (and Lanth and Glisten are more like
Yuma, Del Rio, and Key West).  It's shaky, but I can understand it.
Maybe the `anti-Zhodani sentiment' in the Sword Worlds was just Imperial
propaganda?  (More likely, it was another poorly-considered `rationali-
zation' by the original developers used to explain why psionics weren't
rampant in the non-Imperial Sword Worlds.)

Given this, one would expect some major changes in this relationship now
that the Virus has severed Deneb's connection with the Imperium and there
has been some *rapproachement* with the Zhodani.  The Zhodani no longer
get as much value from supporting Gram.  Scanoth rises triumphant!?!  :-)

> I really think you should try to make up an explanation that fits the known
> facts rather than to make up an explanation and change the facts to fit them.

> Perhaps you'll come up with something useful.

So, what do you think?  Have I done it?  :-)

> There's no reason why a king should welcome a feudal pattern just because
> their own power is based on it. And, in fact, we KNOW they don't. If they
> did the Sword Worlds would be an empire instead of a confederation.

Well, I guess I still haven't explained my view of what a feudal technocracy
is.  The Sword Worlds leaders may be called `kings' but they're more like
`CEOs' - they are at the top of a huge, conglomerate, capitalist, economic
power structure.  They don't have an `empire' just like the `barons' of
the Japanese `keiritsu' don't.  They have a cooperative arrangement - a
Confederation.

I think this has been some good work.  It's certainly helped me to understand
the Sword Worlds better.  I just hope Phil Pugliese:

> I personally feel, considering the 
> preceding text, that attempting to minutely dissect the evolution of the 
> Sworld Worlds will inevitably be a sterile exercise.

is wrong.  :-)

Peace,

David Johnson
Colonel, (ret.), SWCAF
Houston, Texas, USA

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